Curse

Boogey Mancer · May 09, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

i dont care about ursan i only play with heroes and hencihes or with my alliance anyway so all of the people that win about ursan and other skills being overpowered for pve i dont see that happing cause im sure ANET will also give the monsters the PVE version of the skills.

Skye Marin · May 09, 2008, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Good: this divides pvp and pve

Bad: this divides pvp and pve

:/

Pretty much right on, IMO.

If I read things correctly, it will only be values inside the skills that will be changed between PvP and PvE, so cost, cast, and recharge will all be consistent.

In either case, I do wonder about the place of buffs in all this. Imagine if the Discord scenario happened:

-Discord: 5/1/2 does damage to conditioned and hexed/enchanted foes
-Damage buffed to ~100
-Discord nerfed to 2 second casting time

Necrosis was added as a PvE only skill to make up for Discord, I believe, but for this to work in the PvE / PvP split, the casting time should be reduced to 1 second, the damage lowered for PvP, and the damage remain high for PvE.

What if Fragility goes back to 5 energy? Does PvE gain this benefit? What about skills with 'broken' functionality? Example: Wail of Doom.

ShadowbaneX · May 09, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Actually, I can't comment this yet. Why? Wiki isn't loading... Why it's not on the Good GWWiki? :/

probably because like you, I, all the people in this thread (and in similar threads on other boards) and just several hundred random other people decided to take a look and overloaded the server.

As for this change I think it's both good and bad. I mainly just PvE and I have a feeling that soon all monks are going to be LoD spammers and, well, it's just gonna be cookie cutter central again...on the plus side, it might make some of the other skills useable again.

Mr. Undisclosed · May 09, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Jeez, the guru community just disgusts me at times. The update hasn't even been implemented and people have already flocked to the forums to rant on and on about it. Give the update a chance before you already decide on your opinion.

Moloch Vein · May 09, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

In response to one or another trying for the cheap laugh at my above post.

If we are to move into balancing PvE and PvP separately, I sure would like to see them actually BALANCE it.

Soul Reaping is an example of a primary attribute the designers of the game have failed at balancing correctly for BOTH PvP and PvE. Asking for this to be looked over does NOT equal wanting a Win Button in PvE.

Soul Reaping does NOT need to be any stronger in PvE. OBVIOUSLY.

Ursan Blessing NEEDS to get nerfed. MAJORLY.

A few other PvE-only skills are also beyond ridiculous. SY!. GdW. TnTf. At this moment, we're at the stage in PvE where if you DON'T bring an SY! and a GdW in PvE if you have a chance... you're a sucker. It's as simple as that. I even have necromancers running SY! SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS SO STRONG IN ANY SETUP. Oh, and the care-bears ALSO should use SY! on at least one character. OBVIOUSLY.

Take any party comprised of all human players, give them access to all PvE titles at max level, and ANY area is BEYOND easy. THAT is where the hammer should fall.

**cosyfiep** · May 09, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

gee sometimes the wall does listen, but lets wait to see what exactly it heard before we jump to conclusions.

Rhaegor Stormborn · May 09, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit

If you want a challenge don't enter groups that are using UB. People whine so much about not having a challenge in PvE. So gimp yourself and give yourself a challenge.

MMOG players are not the kind of people who gimp themselves to make a game harder. They will do thier best everytime to squeeze out 110% from their characters within the constraints of the system game developers provide them. It is up to the developers to provide balance, not the players to create it by implementing a set of self imposed rules.

Abedeus · May 09, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Jeez, the guru community just disgusts me at times. The update hasn't even been implemented and people have already flocked to the forums to rant on and on about it. Give the update a chance before you already decide on your opinion.

Because it's the biggest change in game since Hard Mode?

Antheus · May 09, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed

Jeez, the guru community just disgusts me at times. The update hasn't even been implemented and people have already flocked to the forums to rant on and on about it. Give the update a chance before you already decide on your opinion.

This update has been in the game since GW:EN launched. How positive was the effect on PvE?

Quote:

Soul Reaping does NOT need to be any stronger in PvE. OBVIOUSLY.

Ursan Blessing NEEDS to get nerfed. MAJORLY.

UB has no effect on PvP, and as such is not subject to skill balancing.

Soul reaping will be reverted to what it was. Both of these will be joined by a whole new set of buffed skills. PvE players severely dislike nerfs, so they will henceforth receive only buffs.

Question: When was the last time a skill was nerfed because it was too unbalancing in PvE? Even including farming, the last PvE-based nerfs I can remember were Protective Bond and Spirit Bond.

Archaic · May 09, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Go go revert Spirit Bond in PvE.

Shiroken Farming, yay.

Operative 14 · May 09, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Sounds like they are doing exactly as suggested here, and I'm glad they are. This is a very nice update.

Granted, the skill balances never really affected me that much (Which makes me question if I'm using the wrong skills

).

Red Sonya · May 09, 2008, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

In response to one or another trying for the cheap laugh at my above post.

If we are to move into balancing PvE and PvP separately, I sure would like to see them actually BALANCE it.

Soul Reaping is an example of a primary attribute the designers of the game have failed at balancing correctly for BOTH PvP and PvE. Asking for this to be looked over does NOT equal wanting a Win Button in PvE.

Soul Reaping does NOT need to be any stronger in PvE. OBVIOUSLY.

Ursan Blessing NEEDS to get nerfed. MAJORLY.

A few other PvE-only skills are also beyond ridiculous. SY!. GdW. TnTf. At this moment, we're at the stage in PvE where if you DON'T bring an SY! and a GdW in PvE if you have a chance... you're a sucker. It's as simple as that. I even have necromancers running SY! SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS SO STRONG IN ANY SETUP. Oh, and the care-bears ALSO should use SY! on at least one character. OBVIOUSLY.

Take any party comprised of all human players, give them access to all PvE titles at max level, and ANY area is BEYOND easy. THAT is where the hammer should fall.

Anet please ignore ^ that guy because he obviously doesn't know what fun is while playing pve. He's one of those holy trinity dudes that wants to control everybodys builds. We want to be super powerful we want to beat up bosses almost solo sometimes. We want to have those epic fights and we want to see some of the old fun (30+ minions and practically unlimited energy for necros) to come back.

Thanks I knew you would listen

Oh man I just had a thought Imagine PROTECTIVE BOND like it USED TO BE!!!!

SOLOing the UW again.

Moloch Vein · May 09, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

UB has no effect on PvP, and as such is not subject to skill balancing.

Soul reaping will be reverted to what it was. Both of these will be joined by a whole new set of buffed skills. PvE players severely dislike nerfs, so they will henceforth receive only buffs.

Question: When was the last time a skill was nerfed because it was too unbalancing in PvE? Even including farming, the last PvE-based nerfs I can remember were Protective Bond and Spirit Bond.

The game designers have explicitely stated they are aiming to balance PvE. Whatever that means.

Ursan Blessing HAS ALREADY seen a nerf, albeit a very minor one.

Several PvE-only skills have been nerfed from their original states. Elemental Lord. Seed Of Life. There's Nothing To Fear. Ursan Blessing. There are more.

As you mentioned, SOME all-around skills have been nerfed due to PvE concerns, Protective Bond being the most note-worthy (and well, that was ages ago.)

skanvak · May 09, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

NO

I first, I hoped it was a joke. But it seems to be rather official.

That is the end of GW. we are going to a total rift of the communauty that will no longer be able to talk to it self. This is the curse of babel. When a pve'r will speak of a skill, the pvp'er will think he is a noob that know nothing of the game and they will both get mad at each other because they will no longer speak the same language.

Very, very bad move.

Edit : THIS IS NOT SARCASM. I am very serious. That is really not what I am looking for. For me Pvp is just using the same interface against palyer, it must not be a different game.

HawkofStorms · May 09, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Question: When was the last time a skill was nerfed because it was too unbalancing in PvE? Even including farming, the last PvE-based nerfs I can remember were Protective Bond and Spirit Bond.

The MM limit. Only way that nerf hurt PvP was the minion factory build, and with EoE on every IWAY team, that didn't even work that well.
And the idiot PvE crowd whinned about nerfs. People like me who actually enjoy playing intellegent builds never did and enjoyed balance gameplay.

MithranArkanere · May 09, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

At last.

Well, at least we know that if this works correctly, they will use it in GW2.
One point up for ANet and higher hopes for GW2.

Now, what's left is to know why didn't they made so before:
- Because they couldn't...?
- Because they didn't wanted to...?
- Because they had no time for that...?
Well... it doesn't really matter... but if they buff up again skills in PvE, maybe we'll see the Ursan reduced to just another gimmick, a last resort when you don't have anything suitable for the area, and not used all over the place and practially forgetting about purchasing skills as many people tent to do nowadays.

DarkNecrid · May 09, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

As you mentioned, SOME all-around skills have been nerfed due to PvE concerns, Protective Bond being the most note-worthy (and well, that was ages ago.)

Actually, Protective Bond was nerfed because it crashed the servers.

Tyla · May 09, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Skanvak, I hope some of that was sarcasm.
It won't kill Guild Wars, and people should understand that skills have been seperated.

Red Sonya · May 09, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

No this is a great move now the pvper can stay in his/her own forums and discuss the pvp nerfs/buffs and no longer will we have to listen to the elitism that pvp rules all balance in the game. Finally separation of the two is here and I couldn't be happier.

HawkofStorms · May 09, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Question, if you are in your Guild Hall (since it is the staging area for GvG) will you see the PvP version of the skills? Because that could be a problem since so many people meet at their GH to ferry to some PvE location.